Compiling error <---- help please

Compiling error <---- help please

Hammer Mapping — Page [1]
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
I am getting a UNKNOWN OPTION error when compiling w/ zoners
I used FPS bannanas setup for hammmer.Heres my log

** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike


** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test.map" "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test.map"


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Zoners Tools\hlcsg.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

Unknown option "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)

-= hlcsg Options =-

-nowadtextures : include all used textures into bsp
-wadinclude file : place textures used from wad specified into bsp
-noclip : don't create clipping hull
-noclipeconomy : turn clipnode economy mode off
-onlyents : do an entity update from .map to .bsp
-noskyclip : disable automatic clipping of SKY brushes
-tiny # : minmum brush face surface area before it is discarded
-brushunion # : threshold to warn about overlapping brushes

-hullfile file : Reads in custom collision hull dimensions
-texdata # : Alter maximum texture memory limit (in kb)
-chart : display bsp statitics
-low | -high : run program an altered priority level
-nolog : don't generate the compile logfiles
-threads # : manually specify the number of threads to run
-estimate : display estimated time during compile
-verbose : compile with verbose messages
-noinfo : Do not show tool configuration information
-nonulltex : Turns off null texture stripping
-dev # : compile with developer message

-wadconfig name : Specify a configuration to use from wad.cfg
-wadcfgfile path : Manually specify a path to the wad.cfg file
-wadautodetect : Force auto-detection of wadfiles
mapfile : The mapfile to compile


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Zoners Tools\hlbsp.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

Unknown option "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)

-= hlbsp Options =-

-leakonly : Run BSP only enough to check for LEAKs
-subdivide # : Sets the face subdivide size
-maxnodesize # : Sets the maximum portal node size

-notjunc : Don't break edges on t-junctions (not for final runs)
-noclip : Don't process the clipping hull (not for final runs)
-nofill : Don't fill outside (will mask LEAKs) (not for final runs)

-texdata # : Alter maximum texture memory limit (in kb)
-chart : display bsp statitics
-low | -high : run program an altered priority level
-nolog : don't generate the compile logfiles
-threads # : manually specify the number of threads to run
-estimate : display estimated time during compile
-nonulltex : Don't strip NULL faces
-verbose : compile with verbose messages
-noinfo : Do not show tool configuration information
-dev # : compile with developer message

mapfile : The mapfile to compile


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Zoners Tools\hlvis.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

Unknown option "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)

-= hlvis Options =-

-full : Full vis
-fast : Fast vis

-texdata # : Alter maximum texture memory limit (in kb)
-chart : display bsp statitics
-low | -high : run program an altered priority level
-nolog : don't generate the compile logfiles
-threads # : manually specify the number of threads to run
-estimate : display estimated time during compile
-maxdistance # : Alter the maximum distance for visibility
-verbose : compile with verbose messages
-noinfo : Do not show tool configuration information
-dev # : compile with developer message

mapfile : The mapfile to compile


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Zoners Tools\hlrad.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

Unknown option "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
hlrad v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)

-= hlrad Options =-

-sparse : Enable low memory vismatrix algorithm
-nomatrix : Disable usage of vismatrix entirely

-extra : Improve lighting quality by doing 9 point oversampling
-bounce # : Set number of radiosity bounces
-ambient r g b : Set ambient world light (0.0 to 1.0, r g b)
-maxlight # : Set maximum light intensity value
-circus : Enable 'circus' mode for locating unlit lightmaps
-nopaque : Disable the opaque zhlt_lightflags for this compile

-smooth # : Set smoothing threshold for blending (in degrees)
-chop # : Set radiosity patch size for normal textures
-texchop # : Set radiosity patch size for texture light faces

-notexscale # : Do not scale radiosity patches with texture scale
-coring # : Set lighting threshold before blackness
-dlight # : Set direct lighting threshold
-nolerp : Disable radiosity interpolation, nearest point instead

-fade # : Set global fade (larger values = shorter lights)
-falloff # : Set global falloff mode (1 = inv linear, 2 = inv square)
-scale # : Set global light scaling value
-gamma # : Set global gamma value

-sky # : Set ambient sunlight contribution in the shade outside
-lights file : Manually specify a lights.rad file to use
-noskyfix : Disable light_environment being global
-incremental : Use or create an incremental transfer list file

-dump : Dumps light patches to a file for hlrad debugging info

-texdata # : Alter maximum texture memory limit (in kb)
-chart : display bsp statitics
-low | -high : run program an altered priority level
-nolog : Do not generate the compile logfiles
-threads # : manually specify the number of threads to run
-estimate : display estimated time during compile
-verbose : compile with verbose messages
-noinfo : Do not show tool configuration information
-dev # : compile with developer message

-colourgamma r g b : Sets different gamma values for r, g, b
-colourscale r g b : Sets different lightscale values for r, g ,b
-colourjitter r g b : Adds noise, independent colours, for dithering
-jitter r g b : Adds noise, monochromatic, for dithering
-nodiffuse : Disables light_environment diffuse hack
-nospotpoints : Disables light_spot spherical point sources
-softlight r g b d : Scaling values for backwards-light hack

-customshadowwithbounce : Enables custom shadows with bounce light
-rgbtransfers : Enables RGB Transfers (for custom shadows)

mapfile : The mapfile to compile


** Executing...
** Command: C:\Zoners Tools\hlrad.exe
** Parameters: -dev -console -cstrike +set deathmatch 1 +map "test"

 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 08:21 PST
eDan Co.
Mighty Typist

Real Live Hands-On Rabbi Medal
Consolation Medal
2007 Sep 24 • 2921
252 ₧
Your compiling tools seem to be outdated. Use the version of Zoner's that appears in the tutorial.
May contain traces of invisible text.
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 08:48 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
Wow thanks eDan it generated a BSP with no errors:)
Thanks alot

Got one small minor problem now:)

instead of generating the map as test.bsp (what i named it)
it generated it as my steam userID.bsp and it didnt place it
in my maps dir listed in hammer config to place compiled maps?

any ideas?
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 09:09 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 25 at 09:10 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
Heres my log....thanks

** Executing...
** Command: Change Directory
** Parameters: C:\Program Files\Steam


** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test.map" "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test.map"


** Executing...
** Command: C:\zoners\hlcsg.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlcsg -----
Command line: C:\zoners\hlcsg.exe "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
Entering C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test.map

Current hlcsg Settings
Name | Setting | Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 2 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
null texture stripping[ on ] [ on ]
clipnode economy mode [ on ] [ on ]
onlyents [ off ] [ off ]
wadtextures [ on ] [ on ]
skyclip [ on ] [ on ]
hullfile [ None ] [ None ]
min surface area [ 0.500 ] [ 0.500 ]
brush union threshold [ 0.000 ] [ 0.000 ]

Using mapfile wad configuration
Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]

0 brushes (totalling 0 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
50%... (0.00 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
20%...40%...60%...80%... (0.00 seconds)
CSGBrush:
50%... (0.02 seconds)

Using Wadfile: \program files\steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\de_vegas.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (101 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \program files\steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\industry_west.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (195 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \program files\steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\828fire.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (10 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \program files\steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\de_volare.wad
- Contains 2 used textures, 100.00 percent of map (74 textures in wad)

Texture usage is at 0.17 mb (of 4.00 mb MAX)
0.02 seconds elapsed

----- END hlcsg -----




** Executing...
** Command: C:\zoners\hlbsp.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlbsp -----
Command line: C:\zoners\hlbsp.exe "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

Current hlbsp Settings
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 2 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
nofill [ off ] [ off ]
null tex. stripping [ on ] [ on ]
notjunc [ off ] [ off ]
subdivide size [ 240 ] [ 240 ] (Min 64) (Max 512)
max node size [ 1024 ] [ 1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)


BSP generation successful, writing portal file 'C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.prt'
0.02 seconds elapsed

----- END hlbsp -----




** Executing...
** Command: C:\zoners\hlvis.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlvis -----
Command line: C:\zoners\hlvis.exe "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"
1 portalleafs
0 numportals

-= Current hlvis Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 2 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
max vis distance [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

fast vis [ off ] [ off ]
full vis [ off ] [ off ]


BasePortalVis:
(0.00 seconds)
LeafThread:
(0.00 seconds)
average leafs visible: 1
g_visdatasize:3 compressed from 1
0.00 seconds elapsed

----- END hlvis -----




** Executing...
** Command: C:\zoners\hlrad.exe
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

hlrad v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlrad -----
Command line: C:\zoners\hlrad.exe "C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.net\counter-strike\cstrike\maps\test"

-= Current hlrad Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
--------------------|---------------------|-------------------------
threads [ 2 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

vismatrix algorithm [ Original ] [ Original ]
oversampling (-extra)[ off ] [ off ]
bounces [ 1 ] [ 1 ]
ambient light [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ] [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ]
maximum light [ 255.000 ] [ 256.000 ]
circus mode [ off ] [ off ]

smoothing threshold [ 50.000 ] [ 50.000 ]
direct threshold [ 25.000 ] [ 25.000 ]
direct light scale [ 2.000 ] [ 2.000 ]
coring threshold [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
patch interpolation [ on ] [ on ]

texscale [ on ] [ on ]
patch subdividing [ on ] [ on ]
chop value [ 64.000 ] [ 64.000 ]
texchop value [ 32.000 ] [ 32.000 ]

global fade [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global falloff [ 2 ] [ 2 ]
global light scale [ 1.000 1.000 1.000 ] [ 1.000 1.000 1.000 ]
global gamma [ 0.500 0.500 0.500 ] [ 0.500 0.500 0.500 ]
global light scale [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global sky diffusion [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]

opaque entities [ on ] [ on ]
sky lighting fix [ on ] [ on ]
incremental [ off ] [ off ]
dump [ off ] [ off ]

colour jitter [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
monochromatic jitter [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
softlight hack [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
diffuse hack [ on ] [ on ]
spotlight points [ on ] [ on ]

custom shadows with bounce light
[ off ] [ off ]
rgb transfers [ off ] [ off ]


24 faces
Create Patches : 336 base patches
0 opaque faces
6769 square feet [974848.00 square inches]
3 direct lights

BuildFacelights:
20%...50%...70%... (0.02 seconds)
visibility matrix : 0.0 megs
BuildVisLeafs:
(0.02 seconds)
MakeScales:
10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%... (0.00 seconds)
SwapTransfers:
10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%... (0.00 seconds)
Transfer Lists : 88704 : 88.70k transfers
Indices : 1920 : 1.88k bytes
Data : 354816 : 346.50k bytes
Bounce 1 GatherLight:
10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%... (0.02 seconds)
FinalLightFace:
20%...50%...70%... (0.00 seconds)
0.06 seconds elapsed

----- END hlrad -----
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 09:18 PST
eDan Co.
Mighty Typist

Real Live Hands-On Rabbi Medal
Consolation Medal
2007 Sep 24 • 2921
252 ₧
Post the contents of your BAT-file. You might have written the wrong filename or something...
May contain traces of invisible text.
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 13:04 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
eDan Co. said:
Post the contents of your BAT-file. You might have written the wrong filename or something...

If he's compiling from hammer, he doesn't have a bat file. Or does he?
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 13:13 PST
eDan Co.
Mighty Typist

Real Live Hands-On Rabbi Medal
Consolation Medal
2007 Sep 24 • 2921
252 ₧
dopefi$h said:
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)


He's using ZHLT.
May contain traces of invisible text.
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 13:17 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
where do i find this BAT file eDan?
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 15:50 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
he means this bat file:
@echo off
hlcsg -nowadtextures mapname
hlbsp mapname
hlvis mapname
hlrad mapname
copy mapname.bsp "C:\Steam\SteamApps\EMAIL\counter-strike\cstrike\maps"
pause
"C:\Steam\Steam.exe" -applaunch 10 -dev +sv_cheats 1 +map mapname

But eDan I think it's possible to use zhlt tools from hammer as well. Because in options you can set the directory of csg, bsp, vis and rad exe-s.
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 00:48 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 00:53 PST
SRAW
Rocket Man

2007 Nov 6 • 2525
601 ₧
Mate de Vita said:

But eDan I think it's possible to use zhlt tools from hammer as well. Because in options you can set the directory of csg, bsp, vis and rad exe-s.


it is possible mate de bullshit, hammer just runs them like the batch does, but compiling from hammer uses more ram, doesnt show progress in some things and is bullshit like mate
Free Steam Games
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 01:18 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
why am I not mate de vate any more?
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 01:23 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
the btm line is ...i want to here from eDan instead of some forum
bs:) make it happn cappnn
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 10:00 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
look, instead of compiling the map from hammer, compile as it says here.

Lol guess what guys! I wrote that url without even looking at the tutorial!
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 10:02 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 10:03 PST
Killer-Duck
Homicidal Anatidae

2008 Mar 5 • 1169
633 ₧
Yeah, compile with a batch-file instead.

Quote:

BSP generation successful, writing portal file 'C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\chlorox@charter.prt'


The compile tools/Hammer are probably getting confused because of the dot in the file path...
QUACK! QUACK!
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 10:26 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 10:27 PST
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
I'd like to raise the pertinent question of why SRAW the ever-loving hasn't been banned.

Also, "forum bs"? Do you want helped or not? Don't be a dick.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 11:44 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 11:45 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
Down Rodeo said:
Also, "forum bs"? Do you want helped or not? Don't be a dick.

It's probably a good thing that I don't know what a forum bs is huh? Or let me rephrase that:
It's a good thing that now I don't know when I've written bullshit and when I've written something helpful since on this forum the two are usually closely linked together. Does that make sense?
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 12:40 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 12:53 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
WASNT BEING A DICK THANKS FOR THE HELP:)\
thought u and SRAW was fighting:)
anyway thanks
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 12:51 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 12:52 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
dopefi$h said:
thought u and SRAW was fighting:)

We actually were and if you're going to stick on this forum, you'd better get used to that :).
I think I'm actually the only one who is still stupid enough to argue with straw and I really don't know why I do it...
hah eDan and then you ask where my post count comes from
Anyway before I started it though, I did answer you.
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 26 at 12:54 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 26 at 12:56 PST
dopefi$h
2009 Jan 25 • 13
Thanks Killer Duck
It was the . in my path.
Thanks again to everyone for all the help
You guys got me going :)
great forum here :)
 
 
2009 Jan 27 at 07:33 PST — Ed. 2009 Jan 27 at 07:35 PST
SRAW
Rocket Man

2007 Nov 6 • 2525
601 ₧
dopefi$h said:

...
great forum here :)


u arent round long enough ;)
Free Steam Games
 
 
2009 Jan 27 at 20:42 PST
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
yeah, straw should know...
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
2009 Jan 28 at 05:29 PST
Page [1]